Funny thing, I've been looking for a used bench-top mill for a while and
have not seen anyone selling used Mill-drills. For all of the
advertising that goes to the Chinese Mill-drills, I assumed that they
must be selling quite a few of them. Just about every machinery supplier
has slapped their name on one or more models. Seems to me that if they
are as "bad" as many say they are, a number of them would be on the used
equip market at low prices. Doesn't seem to be the case. Perhaps they
actually meet peoples needs. Don't get me wrong, I certainly understand
their limitations, I just cant resolve the discrepency between their
claimed uselessness, their sales volume, and the used equip market.

BTW, anyone in the SF Bay area selling a used mill-drill? <g>

keith grant

altavoz: The reason u see no used China mill/drills is they
wear out so fast and so completely .....
  In my case the limitations are that i have my shop in a trailer
and can't put a 2000 LB Bridgeport in it . I had to spend many hours
hand scraping the ways on my Harb Frt piece of junk 30864 !  

Funny thing, I've been looking for a used bench-top mill for a while and
have not seen anyone selling used Mill-drills. For all of the
advertising that goes to the Chinese Mill-drills, I assumed that they
must be selling quite a few of them. Just about every machinery supplier
has slapped their name on one or more models. Seems to me that if they
are as "bad" as many say they are, a number of them would be on the used
equip market at low prices. Doesn't seem to be the case. Perhaps they
actually meet peoples needs. Don't get me wrong, I certainly understand
their limitations, I just cant resolve the discrepency between their
claimed uselessness, their sales volume, and the used equip market.

BTW, anyone in the SF Bay area selling a used mill-drill? <g>

keith grant

(:>Funny thing, I've been looking for a used bench-top mill for a while and
(:>have not seen anyone selling used Mill-drills. For all of the

They are barely adequate as a mill but when you can finally afford to
buy a real mill, they make an excellent drilling platfom. I wouldn't
sell miine for twice what I paid as  it beats a drill press by about a
million to one. I expect people keep'em for that reason.

Sorry, I know it doesn't help with buying a used one. Actually a
couple of the used machinery mags often have them but they are usually
priced more than Grizzly's new price.

Peter

It's up! In color too!!
http://aluminator.tierranet.com

Well, I'm the third owner of a Jet 16. I swapped a 1 HP (real) compressor
for it. My buddy (Bob) got a Lagun with DROs, and REALLY needed space in
his 1 car garage...was also almost broke after buying mill, AND and a
nice lathe, and needed a compressor. The M-D came to him via a tool
auction in Denver, so it does happen. It was used in a commercial
woodworking shop that went belly-up.

I'll speculate a little on why you see so few used M-Ds, assuming that
many folks eventually graduate to a "real" mill (as indeed I hope to, one
day):

-The used price would be fairly low....so keeping it around doesn't tie
up a lot of capital.They are GREAT drill presses.  The shorter column is
seldom a limitation, (for typical DP type operations)  and they are much
more rigid, and have more quill travel than most DPs. There is a wider
range of spindle speeds than most DPs, and less runout too. The table is
real handy, and much more solid than  the x-y tables you see for DPs.  If
I were to sell the M-D  and buy a drill press, I'd likely be money out of
pocket, and would have a less capabile machine for my needs.

-They ain't a great mill, but probably superior to a verticle slide on a
lathe.. especially an inverted- v bed lathe.  So even after you have a
"real" mill, it's kinda handy to have a second mill to save tearing down
setups on the big machine.The R-8 spindle will accept all the tooling
from most "real" mills, which is never the case if the second mill is a
lathe.

A couple of photos in HSM have shown shops with both a "real" mill and a
M-D, I suspect the reasons above have a lot to do with tha..But maybe my
situation is typical:

-When a machinist upgrades, the M-D gets passed on to his wannabe
machinist buddy so that the "graduate" can work on his own projects!

-Kevin Who finally has enough tooling & experience to actually finish a
project (sometimes)  without going over to Bob's.

-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
      http://www.dejanews.com/     Search, Read, Post to Usenet

Hi Keith:

The truth is, drill/mills *are* useful. I've used mine extensively and
don't want to sell it. The major problems, as have been pointed out, are
the head losing alignment when it is raised and lowered, and the lack of
rigidity when milling (especially side milling). But these issues are a
pain, but can be worked around. The first by using the quill or
reindicating the head position, and the second by taking light cuts. As
for drill/mills wearing out quickly, mine is still going strong after many
projects and no sign of wear yet.

Some day I'll buy a larger mill and then I'll sell the drill/mill (and
I'll get to keep my R-8 tooling for the larger mill- another drill/mill
advantage). But till then, I'm makin' chips with it just fine.

Joe Osborn
"A Live Steamer in Every Backyard"
J...@AOL.COM

Peter is right about this. They are great for drilling. They have a huge
advantage that instead of having to fudge around knocking the drill press
vise with a hammer or such to get it centered under the spindle, you can
just dial in the position with the x,y leadscrews. I'd use mine more often
for drilling if I didn't have to change tooling. Generally I leave the
drill\mill set up for milling (since it is the largest mill I have) and
use the drill press for general non-critical drilling.

Joe

I suspect that what is happening here is that mill/drills look enough
like a drill press that they are being snapped up by folks who would
shy away from a bridgeport.  

When was the last time you saw a drill press for sale, say at a garage
sale?  Usually they are "already sold" or "just been picked up."  They
are so handy for wood working besides metal - there's a whole
'nother market out there.

So they see it, and say "we could just take some of those extra
handles off, and it'll do just fine."  Sold.  Handles go in the trashcan
*clonk*.

Jim  

   There was an Enco in the S.J.Mecury for $ 900 about a month ago  I see
about 3 or 4 a year in the machinery classified of the Mercury.  The  ones
$700 or less go REAL fast.  Many get passed on to friends etc.  Try some
of the IC or steam clubs.               Scott

I have one of the earlier Taiwan drill Mills It seems to be good quality
as compared to what is out there now.  I mounted a DC 1 1/4 hp motor and
controller on it and use it for drilling and tapping.  I got tired of
fiddling with the gaurd and belts every time I wanted to change speeds.  I
tap  1 inch threads with it at about 10 RPM.  I can also slow down the
spindle to drill large holes.  I prefer about 10-30 RPM for holes larger
than 1/2 in.  
Cecil in OK, USA
CBear81...@aol.com

Perhaps they are not as bad as the newsgroup concensus indicates. It may
depend on what your other alternatives are. My ENCO is doing fine,
"warts & all".

--
John Ferrell in Julian NC, aka W8CCW

altavoz: I agree , Dave .  You need to get them at about $200 to resell
at $500 . You can't pay the rent unless you mark them to $500 .
  The tooling is diferent . Some of it is higher quality than
the mill/drill . There is big diff' in quality between the true
RF30 and the china MD .

Dave: I see used mill drills locally from time to time. The problem is
that
the seller generally wants something like 80-90% of the original price.
The same holds true for the accessories he may have for it.
 Three reasons for this: 1) Typically the machine was purchased
recently and the seller remembers exactly what he paid for the machine
and wants to get his money back. This is in contrast to someone that
bought a quality mill 20 years ago for $1,000 and figures he's doing
great if someone gives him $650 today.
 2.) Mill drills appear in so many catalogs and magazines that even
someone with no knowledge of machinery can readilly figure out the new
price and price the unit accordingly.Therefore you can't even get a
break at an estate sale, tag sale, etc.
 3.) Most of these units are sold to private individuals rather than
businesses. A private individual generally has not made money with the
machine or been able to get a tax break by depreciating the value of
the machine over time. Therefore, the private individual feels the need
to get back most of the purchase price.
 It is rare that I am able to buy these units cheap enough to resell
them.

Regards,
Dave Ficken
Meridian Machinery
http://pw2.netcom.com/~mermac

I guess that if I were looking for something like that and didn't see
any in the local newspaper, I'd put a WTB ad in the FS section.

--
Paul in AJ AZ  NRA Endowment Member
Checkout http://www.dejanews.com
Checkout the Metal Web News at:  http://www.mindspring.com/~wgray1
Checkout the FAQ at:  http://w3.uwyo.edu/~metal

Some net yahoo who's afraid to leave his real name and won't let
DejaNews archive his misbehavior wrote:

Bzzzt....

So, m...@myob.com, what have you done lately in the shop - or is
your shop in your head?  Build something and tell us about it,
but leave the "xxx is crap, yyy ruleZ" stuff out of this news
group.

My RF-30 mill-drill is happily hogging 1.5" deep pockets in
7076-T6 w/ a 3/4" endmil - a new steam chest for the Otter's engine
(also built on this mill drill).  

Yes a Bridgeport would be better - but I have this, and I'm making
chips and building stuff today, and enjoying my hobby.  So take your
unwanted nonsense away and come back when you've got something nice
or productive to say.

<sound of speen venting fades away...>

- Bart

--
Bart Smaalders                  Solaris Clustering      SunSoft
ba...@cyber.eng.sun.com             (415) 786-5335          MS UMPK17-301
http://playground.sun.com/~barts                    2550 Garcia Ave
                                                        Mt View, CA 94043-1100

On Fri, 13 Jun 1997 10:34:39 -0700, Bart Smaalders <ba...@eng.sun.com>
wrote:

That's what this group is all about, using and helping.

Just came in from the workshop [11.00pm] and decided to read the
groups. Why people have to slag off different machines is beyond me.
the average guy probably has one miller, it might not be the best but
it's his. A good machine will not make a poor machinist better but it
will make a good machinist better so you have to do the best with what
you have. I have a small business and have a few machines, currently I
have 5 millers. A large horizontal, a Richmond 9 x 42, an Elliot
Sturdy Mill 9 x 48, an Arboga [Swedish] toolroom miller 6 x 18 and a
Taiwan Mill / Drill , the big RF45 [I don't think they sell these here
in the UK anymore as I have not seen any for a while].
Tonight I have just been boring the bearing housings for a three stage
reduction gearbox [paying job so has to be right]. What machine did I
use? The Mill / Drill, because It's handy, well lit and I couldn't be
bothered leaning over a 40 something long bed to bore a housing that
is only 4" square. The Arboga has got a dividing head on it and I
didn't want to disturb it or I could have used that.
It's not the machine It's the indivual, I know a guy with a very nice
bridgeport, he can't use it and don't even understands the controls
but it allows him to feel superior.
It's about using and enjoying machines, if you can only afford a
Sherline OK make something that it can do, don't winge because it
won't turn a 10" flywheel for your beam engine project.
I saw a good saying on one of the other Ng's the other day that I
think fits very well.

"Everybody has a photographic memory, some just have no film" !!

Regards,

John Stevenson at

jst...@engineers.force9.net

http://homepages.force9.net/engineers

In article <33a1c4cb.1870...@news.zippo.com>, jst...@engineers.force9.net

John
RIght on,

 ROFLOL
Cecil in OK
Cecil in OK, USA
CBear81...@aol.com

In article <33a1c4cb.1870...@news.zippo.com>, jst...@engineers.force9.net
says...

Well put.
My mill/drill is a Husky. My first mill. 1981 model taiwan.
DRO worth more money than the machine. Picked up used 1986.
Do you think I'm gonna tear the 4th axis unit off the Fadal
to mill a step in a clamp or drill a hole in something a
Buddy brings in along with a 6 pack on Saturday evening?

These machines are VERY usefull, AND serve a definate purpose.
However they take a while to get used to if one is accustomed
to using a high quality mill such as Bridgeport. It can take a
while to figure in the little quirks in any machine.

I remain convinced that " A sloppy machine is no excuse for
poor work."
I will add that a quality tool is a joy to work with and accurate
work will be accomplished on it more easily.

By the way, I do not intend to sell my mill/drill any time in the
near future. It's worth more to me than any one would be willing
to pay.

Samuel V. Lockwood

Great response! Know your tools and their limitations.

Keith